Tony's Console Room Measurements

[lespaceplie]

What great work! I needed to catch up on this fascinating thread. I do have 2 cents to add, though.

The console could be discussed in its own thread, but for the purpose of how it relates to the set, I'll proceed.

I think 36" is too tall for the outermost edge (including the casters). Celation might have some input on this, too. I'm 5' 10" in shoes, and 36" reaches my waist. It's all relative to the height of the actor, but the edge falls well below Hartnell's waist. It only meets Ford's in the rehearsal photo where both are leaning on it - and she's only in plimsolls (see page 25 of this thread). 32" seems more likely for the total.

The top "cap" is probably 2" tall. The bevel creates the illusion that it's taller. Also, the plinth base (not the round thing and casters) is much thinner - more like half an inch thick. The vertical fins of the plinth do not have "cheated" corners. They are sharp or have a cheat at a much smaller scale.

I could also be super, super wrong about all of that.

[galacticprobe]

I think 36" is too tall for the outermost edge (including the casters). Celation might have some input on this, too. I'm 5' 10" in shoes, and 36" reaches my waist. It's all relative to the height of the actor, but the edge falls well below Hartnell's waist.

You would make a good "baseline" to judge by, lespaceplie, as William Hartnell - depending on which bio of him you read - is said to have been anywhere between 5' 8" and 5' 10" tall (though, those saying he was 5' 8" also have Patrick Troughton listed as being 5' 9", and we know Hartnell was taller).

I do hope celation chimes in on this as his research for his Hartnell console build is beyond extraordinary, as evidenced in his build's level of detail. He could maybe even give the height of his console's outermost edge.

Dino.

[celation]

I don't have my measurements to hand - and I've constructed my console as the slightly later version where the circular base is missing. I do seem to remember that the distance from the floor to the underside of my console is under 30 inches, though.

Not a huge amount of help at the moment, but as others have said - judging by the position of the console measured up to Hartnell and Ford, the base looks to have been a little smaller than Tony's initial estimates.

That said, a lot of the other measurements are looking very familiar - the panels and collar, for example.

A minor point about the base - I believe the verticals of the "star" cladding were put in first, rather than the sloping lower cladding. There are a couple of images showing one of these base pieces missing, and the vertical pieces can be seen intact underneath. So in fact these long pieces would have been rectangles, and the lower cladding an isosceles trapezium (I had to look that up... ).

Secondly, the base only has central covers every second panel, rather than - as appears in the plan at the moment - one for every panel.

Great to see this laid out.

C.

[tony farrell]

Okay, I'm away for a week or so and can't access my DVDs, etc., but, to sum up the conversation so far: Currently (excluding the disc which disappeared after only two episodes), I've drawn the underside of the console's 'table' at 31". Chris/Celation says this is too tall - so, do we make this 29"? 29" would make the top of the vertical edging 32" from the floor (again, excluding the 'temporary' disc).
Lespaceplie makes the top 'collar' only two inches high and the panels 44" wide - by contrast, I make these 2.5" and 42" respectively which, if I've understood Chris correctly, he agrees with. I wonder if 44" would be more appropriate for the Pertwee revamped console (44 x 2 = 88 - add the half inch edging strip and this would take the console to 89" which is 'perilously' close to Crispin's drawing for this later console)?
It doesn't really matter whether the uprights are rectangular with the base angles being trapeziums (trapezia?  as when assembled, these would give the same result as I've drawn - so, the console could be built either way and would still look the same. For accuracy, I'm quite happy to take Chris at his word and and will re-draw this showing the construction technique he's suggested. Chris, on this point do you think that alternate panels in the plinth were a slate blue or just one of them?
One last point on the plinth: Lespaceplie makes the bottom upright edge 1/2" - looking at the attached photos, I have to disagree, this edge looks much more like 1" to me.
I think it's good that we are discussing the console but - in principle - agree that it probably merits a thread of its own. At the moment (apart from my modest efforts), we only have Crispin's drawings for the Brachaki console and both of his drawings give the 'diameter' of the console's table as 90" (i.e., original and revamped (Pertwee) versions) whereas the original is plainly smaller than the refitted one.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.
Tony

[kert gantry]

This any help?

[lespaceplie]

The measure of 44" for the outer edge of the panel is a figure originating from Purpleblancmange. There is no "belt" in the construction (as there is in the later remods) so this is presumed to be the actual measure.

The collar can't be 2.5" tall. The slope of the bevel would make the the shorter dimension of each outer polygon on the collar a little more than 3 inches. The slope creates the illusion that it's taller than it actually is. This dimension doesn't change much on subsequent refurbs.

When the console has the Pertwee overhaul, it gets built out bringing the outer measurement to 46" plus a little extra added by the "belt" (mere aluminum sheet, I think).

[galacticprobe]

One last point on the plinth: Lespaceplie makes the bottom upright edge 1/2" - looking at the attached photos, I have to disagree, this edge looks much more like 1" to me.

Tony, one thing to remember is the photos you've attached show the bottom of the plinth later in its life, after they added some metal flashing to it (and all of the other plinth's corners). That could make it 1-inch thick due to the thickness of the metal and the bend radii on the top and bottom corners. The console in its original configuration didn't have this flashing and does look thinner at the plinth's base, so the half-inch may be the side to err on since you are going for how things looked pre-"Edge of Destruction".

Dino.

[celation]

Yes - I went for half-inch ply for the base.

As far as the grey panels go - they seem to vary in colour - sometimes grey, sometimes matching the console colour. One was metal with an opening panel. It's possible that one was grey, and one off-white and the swapped round. I'll have to check that one.

[tony farrell]

Tony, one thing to remember is the photos you've attached show the bottom of the plinth later in its life, after they added some metal flashing to it (and all of the other plinth's corners). That could make it 1-inch thick due to the thickness of the metal and the bend radii on the top and bottom corners. The console in its original configuration didn't have this flashing and does look thinner at the plinth's base, so the half-inch may be the side to err on since you are going for how things looked pre-"Edge of Destruction".

Dino.

Thanks Dino - I hadn't forgotten that.  
The 'flashing' is most likely nothing more than a sheet of aluminium cut to shape with what are known in the UK as 'tin snips'. As such it is extremely unlikely that the flashing is more than a millimeter to two millimeters thick (therefore adding a maximum of 4mm to the height of the base section - and that assumes that the aluminium sheet is wrapped underneath the base as well as over its top). If you look at the slope of the aluminium flashing where it meets the slope of the 'original' base the difference is negligible - so, the flashing really hasn't altered the dimensions of the console's plinth!
Lespaceplie has stated that the "measure of 44​" for the outer edge of the panel is a figure originating from Purpleblancmange. There is no "belt" in the construction (as there is in the later remods) so this is presumed to be the actual measure."
With the greatest of respect, I'm not sure how Purpleblancmange can have 'measured' the console (perhaps at Longleat's twentieth anniversary celebrations) but if he did, then he was measuring the revamped wider console not the original Hartnell version. I'm sorry Lespaceplie, Pertwee's revamped console was virtually four inches wider than the original.
Taking Lespaceplie's figure of 2" for the 'collar', I've done some pixel counting and here are the results (the picture is a photograph and not a screen grab and is therefore fairly high-definition):


(Mods, it might be an idea to split the topic at this point so that any further discussions about the console's dimensions would be more easily identifiable. I will, of course update my measurements here once we've reached some sort of consensus).
Regards
Tony

[lespaceplie]

Purple is just the source of 44" - not implying he measured (how could he have?). I'm pretty sure he did get to check out the refit, though. There is a studio sketch for the refit reproduced in one Steve Cambden's books (Affects or Effects) that has a labeled measure of 46" - not that the builders necessarily followed that. Affixing a new outer edge and belting in the refit would just about do for a 4" increase in overall diameter.

Rechecking the photogrammetry, it certain seems 42" per side is possible. For that matter, 8" for the top panel height does, too. A total re-evaluation is needed, but overall, it seems this console is shrinking (good news for those of us needing to store one in the basement).

The slope of the lower fins and the slope of where the control panel edges meet was probably intended to be the same and should be close.

The aluminum flashing over the plinth base adds quite a bit - not due to the thickness but to the sloppy bends. It's a hasty wrap that hardly hugs the sharp corners. Take a look at a high res photo from earlier use in the studio to see how thin it was originally. By the time the flashing is added, the base might've had more plywood glued to the bottom as well.

[galacticprobe]

The 'flashing' is most likely nothing more than a sheet of aluminium cut to shape with what are known in the UK as 'tin snips'.

I think that term might be universal, Tony; we also call them 'tin snips'. As for the thickness and the flashing, I'll leave that with lespaceplie; he seems to have covered it better than I could have done.

Dino.

[tony farrell]

Rechecking the photogrammetry, it certain seems 42" per side is possible. For that matter, 8" for the top panel height does, too. A total re-evaluation is needed, but overall, it seems this console is shrinking (good news for those of us needing to store one in the basement).

"The Incredible Shrinking Console" - a good title for a thread?! 

[lespaceplie]

After re-consulting some photos, I'm going to mostly stick to my guns on this one. Even photogrammetry produces mixed results due to distortion, but details will bring us nearer to a conclusion. The principle problems with my previous layout were the height of the base and the top panels. The base needed to rise 2 more inches, and the top panels needed to fall by an inch (the refit actually seems to be 9" though). In other words, the total height of the console is 43.5" plus the boost by the casters. The diagram above in this thread has been updated.

Also, I'm going to trust Purpleblancmange's suggestion for now. He's yet to fail, and his dims make sense in the story of the console refits.

Here's Jean Marsh with a caster-less console. It checks out just about perfectly for the heights I have suggested. It also shows the .5" ply base and that the lower angled panels have a fairly low slope (thanks to one being missing).

[Rassilons Rod]

Wow there's a whole wedge missing under the hatch! Never spotted that before!

[tony farrell]

As per Dino's request, scale added (in feet). The Control Room measured a little over 43 feet by 35 feet (excluding the Living Quarters).
Tony